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So I finally made Rosa's Wiki entry. I kept it as "adminly" as possible.

I hated writing this. I tried so hard to keep things neutral that I think I intentionally watered it down too much. On the other hand, if I start writing virtol, I have a habit of not STOPPING. I'll let you guys determine weather or not this was written well enough.

I'm leaving this public because when I write about someone in a sense like this, I figure they at least have a right to know something's being written about them, and they have a right to know it first hand. At least, they have a right to have the option to find out about it first hand, instead of "oh, did you hear".

Comments

hezul
Jul. 25th, 2006 07:26 pm (UTC)
Uh, just wondering wtf you mean by "renegade 'ficcer"?

I'm not quite sure what you're shooting for with the modifier "renegade," because her fics displayed definite talent, IMO. If it's referring to the drama-bomb, well, okay, but I still wouldn't call it "renegade."

Nor would I chalk this up to a group "going off the deep end" so much as a fuckton of misunderstandings and things that could have been handled more diplomatically on all sides.
gunlord
Jul. 25th, 2006 08:11 pm (UTC)
I think a "renegade ficcer" is someone who used to be very prominent in a particular fiction fandom, but left it abruptly for something else. For instance, since I still write/plan to write for the FE fandom, let's say I suddenly drop all my fiction, leave the FE fandom in a huff, and go concentrate entirely on trolling GameFAQs. I would be what Samukins considers a "renegade 'ficcer."

That's just what I've gathered from my conversations with him, though. Samukins, feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted you or something ^^;;;
hezul
Jul. 25th, 2006 08:33 pm (UTC)
...eh. God forbid people have changing interests or anything.
superbus
Jul. 25th, 2006 08:35 pm (UTC)
If Gunny's definition is accurate, I'm going to have to see things on Samantha's side on this one; I'd hate it if people held it against me that I found other avenues and interests.

Notice, half my FL no longer frequents FESS - hasn't even signed up for FESS4 - yet I couldn't care less.
gunlord
Jul. 25th, 2006 08:52 pm (UTC)
Well, I did say "in a huff." Leaving a fanfiction peacefully after you've grown bored with it is one thing, but leaving it abruptly or acrimoniously is another thing. When he talked to me about this kind of stuff, neither he nor I was very sure why these people "jumped ship" so suddenly from writing FE fiction to Himitsuing. Thus, why he called them "renegade 'ficcers" rather than just retired 'ficcers. Again, though, he'll prolly be able to clear it up better than I can ^_^
hezul
Jul. 25th, 2006 09:03 pm (UTC)
Leaving on bad terms with everyone there - okay, I can understand that being considered questionable.

But abruptly? Not so much. I've never felt obligated to explain why my hobbies change to anyone, and I too have found myself doing much less with fanfiction now that I spend more time RPing (among other things, but that's beside the point).

It's not like any ficcer owes it to the internet to keep writing fic in x fandom instead of spending their time doing y activity instead. If they want to jump the ship, that's entirely their decision.
gunlord
Jul. 25th, 2006 09:29 pm (UTC)
Mmm...perhaps. I agree with you in saying that nobody's obligated to reveal why their interests change, but abrupt changes of interests are kind of strange, because for the most part, what people like changes slowly rather than completely in the blink of an eye. For instance, to take you as an example, even though you RP quite a bit nowadays, you haven't exactly cut yourself off abruptly or entirely from writing fanfiction--I know you still keep an eye on fe_fiction, for example ^.~ From Samuraiter's perspective, however, it is a bit jarring to see people so highly regarded in the FE fandom suddenly drop it and dump all of their friends. I mean, when I started getting into Castlevania, I didn't just wake up one morning and say, "hay, CV is better than FE ^^" It was just kind of slow and gradual, and I still have ties to the FE fandom, obviously. Thus, why you and I are not referred to as ~*renegades*~ ^_^

Not that it really matters, of course..."Internet: srs business," as they say.
samuraiter
Jul. 25th, 2006 10:06 pm (UTC)
Oops, this developed into a discussion while I was elsewhere. ... Let me clarify. It is perfectly acceptable for a 'ficcer to change fandoms, develop new interests, and the like. That is not being a renegade; that is branching out. It is a healthy thing to do. Goodness knows I do it!

A true regenade is one who fails to abide by a certain unspoken code of behavior. In the case of FESS, this may be traced to a particular tenet. Traditionally, 'ficcers are not in charge of the places at which they post their work, and they, like any user, must abide by the rules of those places, as well as the wishes of the administration, provided that the administration in question has proven that it has the best interests of the fandom at heart. This establishes a 'talent and management' system that, under good circumstances, works rather well.

The FESS administration has never given me reason to doubt its motivations. Thus, the (re)actions of the renegade faction in question strike me as acts of bad faith, a slight against management by the talent. It is all well and good for 'ficcers to take their destiny into their own hands if the administration of a trusted archive is bad, but ... to do it with no coherent reason? That makes us all look bad, and I will not countenance it.

Moreover, the individuals in said faction have, in the past, escalated their dispute to zones outside of FESS, including LJ and AIM, in addition to never expressing thanks for good reviews, never responding to inquiries, and other sultry offenses. Being a 'ficcer means being courteous and polite, especially to those who host you. Behavior of that arbitrarily contrarian nature is fit for trolls, not for us. (Sorry, Gunlord.)

Admittedly, I was not present for almost all of the original dispute, but I have no reason to doubt the objectivity and maturity of those who explained it to me. ... That is my definition. A 'ficcer is more than just a writer. A 'ficcer is a representative, and must behave as such.

... then again, this point of view is rather antiquated, but, then, I date back to a different era of 'fic, anyway ...
samuraiter
Jul. 25th, 2006 10:07 pm (UTC)
Please note that I cannot spell renegade.

Also note that I mean sundry, not sultry.

Bah, too hot to type properly!
hezul
Jul. 25th, 2006 10:16 pm (UTC)
I was present for the original debate, though mostly on the outside of it. And my understanding has mostly been that....well. Fic didn't really have shit to do with it, from everything I have seen and everything I have been told.

Which is why the use of the term makes me go "bwuh?" My understanding - though once again, not infallable since I was peripheral to the whole thing - is that it came down to 1) people drifting away for other interests, and 2) personal conflicts that made the entire drift a lot messier than it could have been.
samuraiter
Jul. 25th, 2006 10:35 pm (UTC)
'Fic was not involved, but 'ficcers were. No matter what the actual trouble is, it behooves a 'ficcer to act according to their station. The personal becomes public. This is particularly true for 'ficcers of relatively high standing ... like those in question. Bring shame on yourself, and you bring shame on all those who stand with you.

Anyway, I hope that I have explained my stance satisfactorily. There is no need to further clutter the House of 'Bus, so ... if you wish to discuss this further, I invite you to do so in the venue of your choice. :-) Thank you for bringing it up. 'Tis always good to have dialogue on sensitive issues.
(no subject) - hezul - Jul. 25th, 2006 10:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - samuraiter - Jul. 26th, 2006 06:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
gunlord
Jul. 26th, 2006 01:55 am (UTC)
The FESS administration has never given me reason to doubt its motivations. Thus, the (re)actions of the renegade faction in question strike me as acts of bad faith, a slight against management by the talent. It is all well and good for 'ficcers to take their destiny into their own hands if the administration of a trusted archive is bad, but ... to do it with no coherent reason? That makes us all look bad, and I will not countenance it.

Hmm...aside from what Ms. Iris said, Rosa, Summer, et. al. are not exactly the only 'ficcers to have been rubbed the wrong way by FESS' administration. I can easily name 2 who left FESS because they didn't like the way it was run, although in the case of one, he left fairly quietly (I'm the only one who noticed his absence). Now, I won't say anything more than that, since this is a public entry, but all I'll say is that some people may have legitimate reasons to distrust the administration of FESS.

It doesn't really matter, anyways...some people like posting their work up on message boards, others don't. FESS may be a great place for those who like hanging around on forums, but those who don't will go to FFn or wherever. Thus, if you'd like to castigate the "ficcers of old" for anything, you might as well do so on account of something other than their dissatisfaction with a place that does not suit their tastes.
superbus
Jul. 26th, 2006 11:56 am (UTC)
Now, I won't say anything more than that, since this is a public entry, but all I'll say is that some people may have legitimate reasons to distrust the administration of FESS.

Explain that.
(no subject) - gunlord - Jul. 26th, 2006 04:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - superbus - Jul. 26th, 2006 04:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
superbus
Jul. 26th, 2006 11:56 am (UTC)
One problem with that is that the FESS Administration's official stance on the whole matter is that it's not a FESS issue. Nay, other than the fact that her personal life's issues were beginning to affect her ability to do her job as a FESS moderator, we had no complaints about her as staff, until she felt it was necessary to delete her account (which was a little melo-dramatic, but to be fair, Summer handled her's worse). If that was the case, her wiki entry would have reflected it, and really, this entry wouldn't be necessary to begin with; compare her entry to Cap's, and you'll see what I mean, as I wrote them both.

No, the problems you might have read about are strictly personal matters, and 95% of them happened after she had permanently left FESS. They didn't affect "Superbus" as much as they did "Chris Bowen", if that makes any sense. Some of them go on to this day, but only from people close to her; in other words, a friend inside that clique will fire a salvo at my friend... but carefully hidden inside a snarky, bitchy LJ profile, or from an RP account, or behind filtered entries. That is why 1) I felt the need to make this entry, and 2) I have absolutely no qualms in talking about this subject in public, for the world to see (and for those crying "drama!", I have zero emotional attachment to this entry; if everyone else wants to turn it into drama, fine with me, I couldn't care less).

To shorten my point into a little bullet-point, "Superbus", FESS Admin, thinks Rosa was a very good member who made an immediate impact that lasts to this day. "Christopher Bowen", the guy you all see in these LJ entries and that some people know on a personal basis, hates her guts - especially for what she did to one particular friend - and wouldn't bat an eyelash if he found out she had died in a car crash. And that... is a sad statement on many levels.
samuraiter
Jul. 26th, 2006 06:26 pm (UTC)
*nods*

I can grasp the official point of view. The 'ficcer in question did have a major role in establishing the pre-Rekka 'fic community, and it does seem that no permanent harm was done to FESS. In that sense, 'tis but a ripple in the pond.

However, personally, I find the behavior of that individual deplorable and 99% counter to everything that I represent as a 'ficcer. I have zero tolerance for that sort of drama in 'fic communities. Thankfully, I do not foresee that sort of thing happening again.

^_^; I'm sorry for eating up so much of your LJ space with this discussion, 'Bus. (And sorry about the bold; I've fixed it.)