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OK, this article seems a bit TOO heavy...

Saudi Females = Legal Children?

Fenix, Tifa, could you two shed some light on this? This seems like horseshit, personally.

Comments

( 9 comments — Leave a comment )
kizuite
Apr. 21st, 2008 10:28 am (UTC)
Eeeh... well, what exactly do you want to know? There's some truth, some exaggeration, but mostly, it's not as bad as it's made out to be in that article. Women do have to have a guardian whose permission they need for many things, they do need permission from the father if they travel with their child and they are pretty much non-existent in the workforce. There are more opportunities lately for female jobs, though, even if it's not as much as the male workforce.

Also, that 2002 fire incident mentioned caused a whole lot of ruckus. The religious police's power and influence became a lot less than before because of it, so there's a lot more 'freedom', so to speak, for females now to move around without fear of what they would do if caught by the religious police.

...er, that wasn't very informative. I'm better at answering questions about stuff, Fenix may be able to explain legal-related stuff about guardians and such more. >>
superbus
Apr. 21st, 2008 08:56 pm (UTC)
I guess my next question is why would any educated woman stay in a country that treats them like dogs?

Maybe this is Western arrogance speaking, but you - hell, all the women in your family - are educated in the West, where we actually treat our women like human beings most of the time, and to me, it seems patently obvious that the reasons for such a policy are less because of what the Qur'an says and more for the purposes of subjugation and fear. Personally, I'm dumbfounded at any country that needs "Religious Police"; it's too close to Orwell. And though there are "improvements", the fact of the matter is that female illiteracy is unbelievably high; it sounds too close to the way slave masters would keep their slaves uneducated so they couldn't know how badly they were getting fucked.

To make those equations with some form of education makes me shudder, and a part of me hopes I'm just a fat, asshole American talking out of his comfortable ass.
kizuite
Apr. 22nd, 2008 10:17 am (UTC)
Because the legal status isn't as important as it's made to seem there. Despite the legal limitations, women still have lives and still are treated fairly. I've lived in Canada, so I know the image of the poorly treated and very legally limited Saudi woman, but it's very different than how it's portrayed. You have an idea of how I live here and while I obviously don't have the same amount of freedom I had in Canada here, the life I led there and the life I lead here don't have that many differences except in religious aspects (i.e. the abaya, not much contact with males who aren't relatives).

And this is just bugging me and I have to mention it: Saudi women are denied the right to make even trivial decisions for their children and are not permitted to travel with them without permission from the child's father, it adds. This is extremely untrue. I love my father dearly, but most of my upbringing has been from my mother. Almost all the decisions regarding my brothers and I have been made by my mother, and from most of what I see and hear, it's the same for most Saudi families. Moving on to the traveling part, isn't that only common sense? A mother wouldn't take her child and simply decide to travel with them without even consulting and getting the father's approval, would she? Also, it's not the same at all for divorced mothers. My aunt has been divorced since her kids were young and she used to travel with them all the time without needing the father's permission, so that statement (re: the travel part) is somewhat untrue.

Also, regarding the illiteracy rate, you have to keep in mind the more old-fashioned Bedouin families who place their brand of customs and traditions higher in priority than education; customs which say the most important thing a girl should learn is how to keep a home. Yes, I know how discriminating that is for females; there are actually very few families who believe in those customs nowadays, but still, those families' daughters are the missing percentage in the literacy rate.

KSA isn't America and I doubt it ever will be, so I have to say yes, it may be that you're just too used to the American point of view and comfort in America, but I will admit that there are a lot of things wrong with KSA. Some of these are taking a turn for the better and some aren't, but honestly speaking, the state of women isn't broken, so it doesn't need to be fixed. It can be improved, of course, but that's entirely different than fixing it completely.

...way too long comment. D:

Edited at 2008-04-22 10:18 am (UTC)
angeling
Apr. 24th, 2008 02:06 am (UTC)
Hi, this is neonclover with a rename. I purged my friend-of list to get rid of clutter, so if you could please add me back that'd be great. :D; Sorry for the hassle! I'll be removing everyone who doesn't re-add within 10 days. DX

(PS this is copypasta. I lost my old copypasta and made moar.)
superbus
Apr. 24th, 2008 02:33 am (UTC)
Duh. Like I'm going to let you get away that easily. 8D
angeling
Apr. 24th, 2008 02:34 am (UTC)
oh shi-
superbus
Apr. 24th, 2008 02:36 am (UTC)
you can run but you cannot hide 8D!
angeling
Apr. 24th, 2008 02:37 am (UTC)
d-dammit
superbus
Apr. 24th, 2008 02:38 am (UTC)
you know you love it 8D
( 9 comments — Leave a comment )

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