I won't get into the political aspect of homophobia because I disagree with it as well, but... what the Pope says is in accordance to his religion, and as the highest standing authority of that religion, he has to convey what the religion preaches. Behind the Pope's speeches are also the interests of the entire Vatican.

Then again, in my opinion, religion, being a choice, should never justify any kind of political action. Which... obviously doesn't happen, but... still.

The internal politics of the Vatican don't negate the fact that it represents a religion and not a nation. Also, in Medieval Europe, the Church was more intrinsically linked with government, and pretty much merged with it at some point or other - nowadays, although the Vatican remains independent, the Catholic Church itself doesn't get a vote in what happens politically (at least not in most countries anymore, there may still be some theocracies that I don't know of). This doesn't mean religion has stopped to play a part in people's lives in that kind of way, it only means that as an institution the Catholic Church does not govern anything anymore.

Ergo, they are not the ones pushing the legislations on people. If in the past they did stir wars, torture and kill thousands of innocents, and commit several other atrocities, in the present, you can't deny they are only preaching their own beliefs like every religion does. Hell, they are losing influence.

If a government chooses to use religion as a flag that's an issue with the government, not the religion they chose. Similarly, if muslim extremists ram planes into buildings and kill thousands of people in the name of religion, it's an issue with the extremists, not the religion itself. If you look at the scriptures of most religions, all of their teachings are either positive or harmless - it's how people interpret them that becomes twisted.

Note that I'm not defending any teachings. I'm a baptized Catholic but I willingly abandoned the religion because I don't personally agree with how it's conducted. But I have to at least defend their right to preach their beliefs. They have freedom of speech as much as the next person.

The influence of the Vatican/Pope are still strong because Catholicism is still a major religion worldwide. However, notice this: the majority of my country is Catholic, has always been. I studied in a Catholic school, with a convent and nuns working in it, and had Religion as a school subject. Many people in my country are extremely devout. We observe all religious holidays. We have "Christian" political parties. You name it.

Is this statement by the Pope making people on the street hate on gays? Is the Pope saying condoms are bad stopping people from using them in the name of religion?

No.

The religion is the same. Same church, same Pope, same Vatican. This holds true for a LOT of other countries.

Make no mistake about where the root of the homophobia in your country lies. It's cultural. It's mob mentality. If the Pope's statement has that much influence, it isn't because he's stopping by everyone's houses and drilling it into them. It's the people that are the problem. And if you would prefer the Pope and every other authority figure out there to be cautious because people suck - well, so would I, but that's not going to happen. If the head of a church says something against their own preachings, what does that say about the church?

WAY TO GO, POPE. WAY TO FUCKING GO.

I wouldn't be so upset about this (after all, there's still a lot of intolerant people out there) except for the fact that there's still a TON of people who live and die by every word the pope breathes.

preventing evils of homosexuality = saving the environment? Seriously, man? SERIOUSLY?

Also, transgenderism shouldn't be something you can wave your hands around and pretend doesn't exist.

That honestly sounds like a joke one would read in The Onion.

Prop 8 really annoyed me, being a citizen of California. I mean, aside from how unseemly it is to, in a secular country, ban gay marriage, etc, I just hated being bombarded with the campaigning by both sides. I don't even know what the other propositions were (there was some one about freeways that seemed cool!), all I heard about was this stupid proposition. And, not to sound insensitive, it affected the least amount of people too.

.................


...And "I Kissed a Girl" just came on as I was picking my icon. How appropriate.

I could say what that asshole needs but I'd just offend people by going over the line in suggesting anyone would WANT sexual contact with that... XD


...seriously, though. He's a fucktard and I hope he gets a smack to the head like he deserves.

Pope Palpatine strikes again.

I really don't know WHAT they were thinking picking this guy as Pope, because NONE of the Catholic churches i have experience with are ANYTHING like this.

Time to kill a bitch.

When you recall that the Catholic Church is officially against condom use (for instance) and pretty much preaches "sex: reproduction only", that actually makes complete sense.

He, as the head of a religion (which is optional, unlikea government), is supposed to do that. The followers and lower priests may compromise or even disregard that issue, but he can't.

Now, you could say that the Church's view on sex are wrong altogether. However, as long as that base stays, there's no way in hell that the Church is going to change their stand on homesexuality.

The Church considers gluttony as a sin, just as lust is, so... yeah. We have taste buds and whatever else because God isn't a prick, but that doesn't mean we should drown in self-indulgence and forget Him.

That's the Church's doctrine. One should expect a conservative Pope to follow it very tightly.

I'm late, but they do take the same approach for sex. Sex for reproduction is fine, sex for carnal pleasure only is a sin. Just like food for keeping you alive is fine, but eating for the sake of pleasure only is considered a sin.

ETA; we have taste buds AND sexual instinct both for the same reason - preservation of the species. Nature wants us to eat and have sex because that'll make us live and have children. Don't mistake that for what the Church wants us to do.

Right and wrong is subjective. You can take a naturalistic approach to something, but saying the next person is wrong for what they believe in only makes you as narrow-minded as they are when they reprimand you.

Edited at 2008-12-25 04:22 am (UTC)

According to their definition of sin, yes.

Quote, "saying the next person is wrong for what they believe in only makes you as narrow-minded as they are when they reprimand you".

You're entitled to having your opinion just as the churches you attended are entitled to having different approaches to things.

The only thing you really shouldn't be doing is insult someone else's opinion, is all. Personally, I'm of the opinion people can do whatever strikes their fancy as long as it's not harming someone else, barring extreme cases in which all logic goes out the window, anyway.

There's plenty of logic behind it. There's rarely anything without logic behind it. It may not be your logic, or logic you can agree with, but nothing is without meaning.

You're entitled to having your opinion about people's opinions, too.

You have somehow managed to aim a wide swath at Christianity in general, and not manage to hit anything I am affiliated with. A+

I am actually with Crystal on the Mormon issue, and a add a second point to it. There is a major trend of dissonance between what the higher up people in the LDS church believe and what the every day Mormon believes.

I also agree with yubsie. If you come to the Catholic churches around here, and through the more liberal parts of Quebec, you will find a majority of people on your side. Though, the amount of sway the pope has on the people around here is question because a Catholic woman and her nephews attend our church on alternating Sundays when we are considered a heresy by the Catholic church...

(Side tangent: also considered a heresy by the same people who thump the loudest in the US against homosexuality. Well, some of them anyway. They are also anti-catholic. And anti-mormon. It seems the is no unity gained by mutual hatred of other groups)

On the plus side, you could join in with the nutjobs who call him the Antichrist? Not the ones who are joking, but I mean the ones who actually mean it.